Podcast by Camillo Loken, published on 12.06.2024 on Spotify
Link to the original audio version of the podcast in Norwegian: click here
Spiritual conversation with Lavrans
About host:
Camillo Loken is an author & speaker covering topics related to body, mind & soul with a speciality in bridging science and spirituality.
Short description of the podcast:
In this episode I interview Lavrans.
He tells a bit about his performance in The Voice and about his past where he really got to feel the darkness and how the darkness has helped him to appreciate the light and life.
He also talks about how the Universe synchronized at its best to help him create the swan costume he wore in one of his appearances on The Voice.
A pretty incredible story.
[source of the picture: Camillo's FB account]
Translation of the whole podcast:
Camillo: Today I have a very exciting guest and I think many of you know about him. Welcome to you, Lavrans.
Lavrans: Yes, thank you very much.
Camillo: Congratulations on the second place in The Voice. It must have been a huge transition for you from being unknown and then suddenly everybody knows who you are and recognizes you?
Lavrans: Yes, very strange, but also very nice.
Camillo: It must have been a big change?
Lavrans: Yes it is, but it feels right at the same time.
Camillo: We are going to talk about being true to oneself, following your heart and looking at the world as it is more than just the physical thing. That maybe we are part of something bigger and that we are spiritual beings with a physical experience.
Lavrans: Yes.
Camillo: After a while you started to open up for the spiritual, but you have a tough past?
Lavrans: Yes, for sure.
Camillo: Is it OK for you to talk about this?
Lavrans: Yes, maybe I should begin with where it all started. And that was when I was abused as a child. It gave me emotions and thoughts that you are not supposed to have as a child. Shame and keeping it secret. This happened when I was around five years old.
Camillo: I have talked with others that have been so strong that they leave their bodies while the abuse is going on - did you have any experiences like that?
Lavrans: Yes, I can relate to that, but it got clearer to me later on, because it happened again when I was fourteen. Then it got very present cause then I escaped completely out of my body. After these incidents I was not present and had visual disturbances.
Camillo: It is very traumatic and hard to find any meaning in this, like how can someone be that mean? I struggled with this when I started my spiritual journey back in 2005. I could not find any reason for any God, source, force or intelligence when children, like you, are exposed to it.
So I was an atheist and did not believe in anything beyond. Later I can see that there is a meaning and it makes it difficult to talk about the stuff we are talking about now, but you have seen that it happened to you for a reason.
Lavrans: Yes for sure, but I could not see the reason earlier on. It was very difficult to defend this and when I had my spiritual awakening it made sense to me, but it was still very hard to accept the bad stuff that happened in the world - beyond what I have experienced. But I've understood that the stronger is the darkness, the brighter gets the light. That contrast is very important to be aware of.
Camillo: What was it, that made you see this had happened to you for a reason? Did you have some kind of spiritual awakening?
Lavrans: Yes, I had a spiritual awakening that was very strong. I had been to the movie and I have also been listening to a podcast with Lilli Bendriss and I was very interested in learning more. I was not spiritual at this point but very open. Heard about channeling, but It was difficult to get a grip on it.
I went to the movie and watched "Conjuring 3", of all movies... It's based on a true story about exorcism. And I got this thought in my head: "Shit they are doing it all wrong! They fight this force with the same energy that the demon is using!" Something happened within me like an emotional explosion and I understood that they would have to use the energy of love to fight this.
Camillo: Yes, because you can't fight darkness with darkness.
Lavrans: Exactly! I went home and didn't think more about it, but then I suddenly felt dizzy and it started a process, where I was sitting on the bed, looking into eyes of my boyfriend at the time, maybe for an hour. As I was staring into his eyes I saw lights and he started to transform into very extinct figures. I thought that this should normally scare me, but I got messages that this is not more real than what you see normally. I didn't understand it at the moment but it was very, very intense!
Camillo: Did you feel this throughout your body? Like an activation?
Lavrans: Yes for sure! I was in some kind of trance and at the end it was just chaos and I was told to relax and I was like: "How am I supposed to relax?"
I could hear loud music and I got the understanding that I would have to go past all the noise and chaos and just BE. When I managed to relax there was a "bang" and I was filled with a sense of love.
It is very hard to explain this feeling - connection to everything... What does that even mean? It was kind of infinite. The feeling of love was so pure.
I have experienced love here on earth before, but this was beyond human love.
Camillo: Unconditional?
Lavrans: Yes, completely! Pure love. After this I was watching Lilli Bendriss channeling and then I understood much more!
Camillo: But you had trust, cause when you were told to relax you managed to do so.
I talk a lot about this - you have to trust that what is going to happen is happening for a reason. When you have trust and are open to it - things will fall into place.
So you opened up for the energy of love and it has been present since?
Lavrans: Eh... Nah, its been on and off and I think I needed time to wrap my brain around it.
In a way, I understood the answer. But I had to put in all the things in the equation, so that it would make sense. Many times I was like: "Wait, I know that it is true! I have felt it so strong!". But at the same time I have experienced stuff that go against it and I have learned over time that there is a reason.
And I know that the reason why I have had all these experiences is that I am:
1. supposed to help others,
2. I am supposed to understand the emotions
and 3. experience hardship to be stronger myself.
Camillo: Tough life experiences/darkness makes you stronger and the light brighter. I think that there has been enough darkness and that it is now time to bring in more and more light in the world. And that you had to go through what you went through, so that you can help and understand others by sharing your insight.
Lavrans: Agree and that is why I want to make music, to spread the light.
Camillo: But you do that as well! I remember when I first saw you perform. I thought: "Damn he is a good communicator!". I could sense that it all came from your heart and that it really meant something to you.
I do that as well, because I believe in what I am talking about. You have to believe in it! [both laughing]
When people sing, you can feel the energy hitting just through the voice. From heart to heart. And that is where you are exceptional Lavrans. People notice the heart energy and I personally believe that you have been given this task as a spirit. And that you will reach far beyond the Norwegian boarders.
Lavrans: Yes, exciting to see what the future brings. I also got the feeling that I am supposed to sing to people all around the world. I have always loved singing. But it was after the awakening that I understood I was supposed to sing. I understood the music differently.
Camillo: Have you always been singing?
Lavrans: I've always been singing for fun, but people told me to be quiet and that it was annoying, so I stopped doing it in public.
Camillo: What happened to make you sign up for The Voice?
Lavrans: After the awakening I understood lyrics completely different! A lot of music is about love and I used to think... that is so overrated and shallow. Between two people. And boring that all music is about THAT! But then I understood that it is not that kind of love they are singing about. [laughing]
After this the lyrics got more powerful to me. It's all about the energy that is for all of us, universal love. I could reach notes that I could not before and my voice changed. I could put in more emotions because the lyrics got so important!
I sang more and more and at the time I was working in a pizzeria. And one night I was supposed to sing only one song, but ended up singing all night. People asked me to sing and said that I should sign for The Voice... and I did!
Camillo: I think it is so cool that you dare to be who you are! You had your own outfits and others would probably not dare to wear any of it, but you went "all in".
Lavrans: I would not have dared it either if I hadn't had the spiritual awakening. I have understood that I must rely on my intuition and that I don't have to be afraid. I had not planned to wear this or that, but I got visions and from that I made the outfits.
It's important to be in your own force, trust it. I see it like the fear is there to create resistance and try to fool you to believe that it is wrong. But I believe that the stuff, that we are afraid of, is often what is the right thing to do. I was afraid when I went on stage only dressed in flowers, thinking that it was stupid, but I stood in it and it came out good!
The hate I've got after my performances is very little, it's nothing. Maybe cause I have removed that fear? I've done it for myself and others, but not to prove anything.
Camillo: I think that we create our own reality and that it is important to stay in the tough stuff and be true to yourself. You said once that everything just IS. It's very rare that people say that. I've talked a lot about it earlier, but rarely heard anyone else mention it. What do you mean by it?
Lavrans: I think many people have a need for control - that everything is supposed to be called this or that. Or they want to achieve something. I think that this can stop it from being special?
If life is controlled I would have evolved completely different on so many levels. And I can't focus on that... I just have to BE and that is when it all comes out the way it is supposed to.
Camillo: Yes, people have a tendency to put labels on everything: this is correct, this is wrong. But everything just IS! It's the law of relativity. We humans compare everything and put labels on everything we see.
Look at the Creation. I believe we have come here to express our own unique self. And then you have to follow your heart and be true to who you are.
I lived a life that was expected of me for 40 years. I was afraid to quit my job and start doing what I'm doing now, but ended up thinking: "I'm afraid, but maybe that's when you should do it!".
I do not regret my choice. Jon Skaus once said "Look at the Creation as a puzzle where we all are unique pieces and we all fit together in the puzzle". The puzzle becomes complete. If we all copy each other, there will be too many similar pieces and we will not be able to complete the puzzle.
Lavrans: Exactly. Yes, it's an illusion. I think people wish for stuff they don't really want. They look at things from the outside and think: "Oh, I really want that! It looks so great!". When they get it, they realize: "Oh shit I don't want this!". Longing for something you don't have becomes a sort of dopamine [hunt]. I think it's important that if you embrace what/who you are in the puzzle, you will feel the most complete. Our piece in the puzzle is already made, so you really have to remove all the stuff that stops you from seeing what your piece truly is.
Camillo: Exactly, it's a unique piece which is a part of the Creation. Every piece is just as important as all the other pieces in the puzzle.
Lavrans: Mhm, yes.
Camillo: We are all equally important. The point is about the feelings and the experiences we are going through. Get the physical experience and dare to follow your heart. That's our life task.
Lavrans: Mhm. And then I also want to say, that when someone doesn't know what to do/where to go in life, wait and trust the time. Don't try to look for your purpose, but try to feel what's right for you now and you will find your path.
Camillo: Let me ask you - do you meditate? I think that's the right thing to do to calm the noise around you. By closing your eyes you shut out 80% of the impressions from the outer world.
There are so many social media and gadgets and I feel that the new generation has access to the technologies from birth. They are bombarded by this. And there are so many frightful headlines. If they are constantly out there, we can't make them seek inwards. Are you good at turning off that noise?
Lavrans: I guess I use my cellphone too much [laughing].
But I put it on silence mode when I need to.
Camillo: So, you have breaks when you dig into yourself?
Lavrans: Mhm, mhm, especially before going on stage and such. Then I have to meditate - get rid of all thoughts and just BE. Ehm, without this, I feel I have too much luggage to carry. I have to get rid of some luggage.
Camillo: Yes, I think it's important to have a schedule to stop and go inside yourself and start to feel. Meny people have never done this. They live a sort of pattern of reaction. Alarm clock, going to work, routines and autopilot. Then the days, the months and the years go by.
Lavrans: Yes, and the time passes so fast.
Camillo: Yes, and then you will not be able to become the piece in the puzzle that you were meant to be.
Lavrans: Mhm, and you don't take the time to listen to what it was.
Camillo: It's not so easy for people who have never had these thoughts before. It's a process. And you had a very strong experience and you had gone through a lot of darkness. But there's hope for those who are going through tough times. There's maybe a meaning behind all the tough times.
I used to say that we all have a contract for our soul and we are able to decide for how long different periods are going to last. So, if we go into a dark and tough situation and manage to accept it, and say thank you for letting me experience these heavy feelings, your soul may say "I don't need this again". Then a change will happen.
Or maybe it can happen the way you experienced with your boyfriend - looking in his eyes for 1 hour, trustfully, and saw something. And things started to happen.
Lavrans: Mhm, it all happens in a timing, I didn't mean it to happen, it just happened. You need to trust, the surrender is very important. Let go! Don't try to find out what to do, just let go of your need for control. And the answer will pop up.
Camillo: Control is fear. One has such a need for controlling what's going to happen in life and that is based on fear. One has to let go! I have made a scale: from fear to love. To reach extended level of consciousness, you have to let go. Trust the energy of love. You have a spiritual mother and have much joy from being with her. You two can talk freely about spiritual questions.
Lavrans: Mhm, yes. I went to her when I had my spiritual awakening. She had problems being addicted to painkillers and had decided to step down the use of medicine.
After my experience I had a severe headache and felt sort of spaced out and I felt that my head had exploded. My ego is the demon and eh eh eh. I felt that the ego was responsible for all the evil in the world. And ego tells us that it hurts. But the others - the devine - will never describe this as painful. Because the devine accepts this, but the ego will resist it. This is what makes the demons, the negative emotions.
But mmm mmm I went up to my mother, told her about my experiences and that there's nothing to fear - everything is good - life is beautiful. Then she said that she had a lot of fears. You can die.
She thought I had lost my mind but she was also interested/curious. My siblings had no interest at all. I therefore continued talking to my mother. I remember sitting on the sofa with my mother and during a month or so she finally understood what I was talking about. We had the same language about this.
Camillo: Yes, it's good to have someone to talk to.
Lavrans: Yes, very much so.
Camillo: I am making these podcasts, so that people shouldn't feel so alone thinking about these questions. Many people struggle with talking freely and openly about spiritual experiences.
In Norway this topic has a lot of stigma, it's not commonly accepted to talk openly about the things we are talking about now. I have worked on this topic for 20 years, and it has become more and more accepted over the years. Started in 2005. There is still witch hunt on well-known profiles.
Lavrans: Yes, definitely, and a lot of ridicule as well. I feel, though, that it is very important not to give this any energy.
Camillo: Yes, but this is a process. People need acceptance. And is a basic need. And it is ego.
Lavrans: Mhm, mhm, but there I am lucky since I have had a lot of hardship and realized I have to just be me. I cannot give these people or sayings any power. I have experienced that what they are saying just isn't true. I just conclude: "OK that's your opinion. I have another opinion".
Camillo: OK you don't give other people's sayings any power. Because they have their own path in life, you have yours. We all look at the world with different lenses. Some of us with narrow lenses and others with wide lenses. So, a person with narrow lenses will not be able to see what the person with wider lenses is seeing. The understanding of what is real will therefore differ.
When you reach (like yourself) a wider lense level, you just accept that others have a different opinion (you do not judge them). You have to experience darkness to be able to look at the world with wider lenses and to accept other people's opinions. They are just looking at the world with more narrow lenses.
It is a process and you went through this at young age. You decided that you could stand in your own light, not depending on other people's opinions. My spiritual awakening started as a grown-up. I had a lot of shit from other people - they said I was an idiot, sharlatan, lier, exploited people with spiritual information and was ridiculed by former colleagues, neighbours, and I lost some friends. Tough times, but luckily I had my wife, Synnøve, to talk to. When people said awful things to me, it used to sting in my heart. Then sting less and less. But now it doesn't sting anymore. Just like as if I had worked with my ego - why give them any power? Let it go! They do not really know what they are talking about.
Lavrans: It is very easy to take it in and that's the funny thing about it. It's odd, but when you receive hate it's easier to receive. But when you receive love, you miss out. It's sad that we give hate more power because it's the opposite. I noticed that when I opened up about what has happened in my life, there are many people that have written to me about... whatever. This is hard for me to read, but I choose to think I do not open up for them to think bad about me. But for those people I know I can help. As long as I focus on this, the haters disappear.
Camillo: Exactly, it's what you give energy that matters. There's enough people out there who claim the truth and think they know what's best/point finger. And those who point finger need to work on their ego. That's why there's no reason to give them your energy. Giving them attention is giving them energy.
I think it's so nice when you say you do this for others who needs it - and there are many out there - and you will reach them with your voice. Both through your music and your story. So just keep on being true to yourself and share your experiences. Why else have dark experiences if you don't share it with others who need it. It's a reason why darkness comes more to some than others. Maybe they are supposed to be the great workers of light, go out there and shine for those who are stuck in their darkness.
Lavrans: Mhm, mhm, that sounds meaningful! Gives you a reason to do what you do. There's no use in helping people who are not in distress/in need. It's a sort of play and someone has to be in need and others have to help.
Camillo: Yes, yes, I look at this as a play where we all have roles to play. In all dramas there are villains to make the drama and they are only playing a role. Do you see it this way too?
Lavrans: Yes, I have received many messages from "the source" that what we see isn't real. It's just what your brain makes. When I had my awakening I saw that my boyfriend's face was being pulled in different forms. Crazy to watch!
Camillo: Did you see what was behind this?
Lavrans: Yes, it was totally twisted and I was told that this is just as real as any other thing you see. Everything you see is just an illusion.
Camillo: Exactly. And that's something many people don't think about because... If we touch this table in front of us, it feels real. But in fact this is only electrical signal going into the brain. We think we can see with our eyes, but in fact we use the sight center in our brain. The eyes only give the brain information that is interpreted by the sight center in our brain - inside a dark scull. How can we be sure that the information given to the brain is correct. It might just as well be a movie giving us information. And that is what I believe [Lavrans agrees] and that is why we play our roles and that's why the darkness is a part of the drama on our stage.
Lavrans: Let me tell you. These things you find wrong or stupid, things that are happening during your life that are unpleasant - this is what makes reality real. Without this the movie would be stiff and scary to participate in - it would be too perfect. So all imperfect things make it perfect. Because without this it would not be real.
Camillo: Exactly. And Neale Donald Walsch is saying in his book "Himmelske samtaler" ("Conversations with god"): "This is the only game in town and you love it". It gives drama and all kinds of feelings - from fear to love. But from the soul this is the goal.
As humans we do not understand why we have to experience fear and darkness, but the soul wants all kinds of feelings. If the mind only existed in cosmos it wouldn't have any experience. Only knowledge. To get experience you have to go into the physical and experience the feelings. The feelings are the key. Do you agree?
Lavrans: I believe you can never feel free if you haven't been trapped. I think the Creation trappes itself to feel free again. The Creation is free all the time but then it creates things that hold it back to feel free again.
Camillo: Very nice picture. I used to say "We have to forget to remember". Same thing. The Source can not experience itself if it's not an illusion of separation. If the Source is one (everything is one) then there is nothing outside of it and therefore impossible for the Source to mirror or experience itself. That's why it created a play where the Source plays all the characters to feel existence. What do you think?
Lavrans: Mhm, mhm, yes, I agree.
Camillo: I think we agree. I have not had the same experiences as you have had - that love experience - but I had a heart-chakra opening that was very strong. Also a flowthrough of energy. But I have read a lot about the topic and other people's experiences. This has given me a lot "a-ha experiences" and given me ability to see a connection. Feel that it has given me harmony. I have settled with the thought that we are actors on a stage. If something negative is happening I can choose to give it my energy or not, because my character has to go through this anyway. I can decide how long my character should be in the negative then.
Lavrans: Mhm, mhm, The good thing is that love can really transmute it completely. There is something you can feel stuck in but if you then put love into it, you can be totally free. Not explainable, but you receive solutions and openings out of the blue.
Camillo: Yes, it looks random, but these things happen because you connect to love energy. It's the strongest there is. Before starting this podcast today, we talked about our film "Untied" which we are making together with Petter Grinddal, director. The intention is to make a film that will help people and show that we can make a film with a good story and good message. No focus on making money. Focus on love. As we met obstacles, solutions just came to us. People have worked for free, lots of work but very exciting and fun. The challenges just vanished.
Lavrans: Mhm, mhm, wow, mhm.
Camillo: Do these things happen in your life as well now that you have opened up for these energies?
Lavrans: Mhm, mhm, yes. This I haven't told yet because of tv-crews and lots of people around. I used a swan look at my first live. Many thought it was angel wings, but it was swan wings. It's because I sang the song "The ballet girl" and because I associate ballet with swans. I then saw an image in my head about a swan look and that it would be perfect to use real swan feathers. Impossible to buy and very expensive. 3 feathers for 600 kroners. I could have bought 3 feathers, but wouldn't have received them in time for the show.
I then tried to find feathers on the beach but they were quite destroyed. I ended up ordering goose feathers on the internet, ha ha. Quite similar, only smaller. I never received them. I tried contacting the company but couldn't get any answer. Then I thought: "Shit, I have to do something else." I ended up buying a lot of smaller feathers in Sarpsborg, very expensive ones. Afterwards we drive home.
On the way home there's a traffic queue and police control. We didn't want to go through such control, so we took another road. It's quite far along a lake. I told my friend Mina, oh, maybe we can find feathers here? We were quite tired. "Let's go home and just make that costume!".
Suddenly Mina said: "Stop, stop, I think I saw some feathers on the beach!". I saw something white - could have been garbage, I thought. We went there and saw lots and lots of swan feathers scattered on the beach. The swan was killed and only the wings were there. All of its body was gone. Totally wild! The wings were totally clean.
Camillo: Think about all the things that had to happen for you to get there that day.
Lavrans: I had visions about the costume and thought that if I was to make this costume, the universe would provide it to me. I panicked when I didn't receive the feathers by mail and I then let go of the thought. "The costume will be made and will be shown on stage the way it should be." And then the universe opened up to me. If I had not let go of the negative thoughts, I wouldn't have found the feathers. I had resistance, I chose to transmute it by thinking "everything will be as it's supposed to be". Having trust is important.
Camillo: Ees, yes, it's so important what you are saying. Let go and trust that we are a part of an intelligent Creation. And that everything we send out in a form of energy and thoughts and hope and joy and wishes for other people's joy, then we get a lot of help. A cool story. And what did your friend say?
Lavrans: Yes it was totally wild and sick. And my friend was in total extasy, but also sad that the swan had died. At the same time we thought it was totally devine.
Camillo: Yes, but the swan was used for something nice afterwards.
Lavrans: Yes, it was given eternal life in my costume.
Camillo: I think it was good for the swan to have given something lasting after his death.
Lavrans: Yes, for sure, I believe that physical things are superficial. But there is also something in the energy of physical things. So if I had used duck feathers it would not have been the same. Swan feathers really are beautiful! Very big.
Camillo: The idea just came to you?
Lavrans: Yes, I had a vision about this and I feel connected to swans. Looking at Pinterest for inspiration, I saw a leopard top (which has nothing to do with swans) but I liked the shape of the top. This I wanted to use for my costume.
Camillo: And then you just trusted this?
Lavrans: Mhm.
Camillo: Yes, it's so lovely. You didn't give the fear any energy. Many wouldn't have dared to go on stage in such an outfit. You stayed true to yourself. It's about daring to be true to oneself and let go of the other people's thoughts.
Lavrans: I am a perfectionist and therefore obsessed by the thought of making everything perfect. Important to set aside such thoughts and trust it's good enough.
Camillo: Because the thing has a purpose, what you deliver has a purpose and a part of the script. If you trust it, that will be visible in the play.
Lavrans: Mhm, mhm. [giggling]
Camillo: Do you have any exercises for finding inner calm? Meditation? Something you want to share with the public?
Lavrans: This is commonly known, I guess, but I like to lay on the grass in the garden and also walking in the forest. Awesome and cleansing.
Camillo: My favorite too.
Lavrans: Mhm. It's weird - earlier I could walk in the forest not feeling and understanding how nice it was. My senses were closed. But now that I have opened up, it's totally wild how it feels walking in the forest.
Camillo: Do you feel like the forest is talking to you?
Lavrans: Mhm, to some extent. There's certainly some communication. You feel connected to the forest.
Camillo: If you just sit in the forest, you'll see a lot happening around you. Things you normally don't see. [Now they talk simultaneously about all the stuff/lives you find in the forest].
Yesterday I sat down in the forest watching a small ant dragging a pine needle. "Oh, where is he going?" Interesting to watch him as he went along. A part of this wonderful Creation. Being present without worrying about what's gonna happen tomorrow.
Lavrans: Yes, this is really nice to do. This is the important stuff. All other achievements are not so important. The little things are the most beautiful in life.
Camillo: Do you feel more present here and now after the awakening? That you notice and look upon things in a different way?
Lavrans: Mhm, mhm. I have always been observant but now I consume impressions better and understand what it's about. I'm more intuitive and know what feels right for me, because I'm more present. Not doing what I think is right but FEELING and understanding what is right.
Camillo: You shut down your analytical mind and act upon feelings, your intuition. It has been fun meeting and talking with you. I hope the listeners have enjoyed our conversation.
Lavrans: I hope so too. Because after my awakening I used to listen to you and Lily Bendriss. I understood that: "shit, I have to talk to you guys". It seemed impossible.
Camillo: Now you sit participating in my podcast and yesterday you visited Lily. Everything's falling into place.
Lavrans: Believe in your intuition, it's real.
[source of the picture: Camillo's FB account]
Translation by Akkris, redaction by Ada KaEm
Source - podcast recording: click here
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